From Startup Operator to Climate Investor: Djoann Fal on Funding the Technologies That Actually Move the Needle

[00:00:00] Ronen Mense: Here we are, another episode of Epicenter, where we feature [00:00:15] people who are shaping today’s digital economy and business influencers. Um, I’m super excited to have, uh, John F here who is actually pioneering [00:00:30] something that is, is truly unique in Asia, in climate tech, um, with his own fund. John, welcome to the show.

[00:00:38] Djoann Fal: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:40] Ronen Mense: It’s, I mean, we’ve known each other for, I’m, I’m gonna guess like, 10 [00:00:45] years.

[00:00:45] Djoann Fal: It’s been 10 years.

[00:00:46] Ronen Mense: 10 years.

[00:00:47] Djoann Fal: Don’t look at my wrinkle.

[00:00:48] Ronen Mense: Well, you’re look, looking at the look in the mirror here, right? Yeah. It’s uh, it’s

[00:00:55] Djoann Fal: crazy, huh?

[00:00:56] Ronen Mense: 10 years. Yeah, 10 years. My God. And, and, um. You have quite an amazing story [00:01:00] of, of, of actually how you got over here to Asia.

[00:01:03] I mean, maybe you can just kind of tell the audience who is probably pretty curious who you are

[00:01:08] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:01:09] Ronen Mense: And, uh, what got you here and, uh, yeah.

[00:01:12] Djoann Fal: Yeah. So John [00:01:15] Fall and French. Right. Uh, so, uh, when you graduate from a business school, you have just a few choices. Either you do, uh, consulting in a, B, CG, or McKinsey or something like this, or you do a bank.

[00:01:26] Mm-hmm. Otherwise, that is not gonna be happy to have paid [00:01:30] that expensive business. School fees.

[00:01:32] Ronen Mense: I’m sure.

[00:01:32] Djoann Fal: So London or Paris, either of your choices. And then you have the more exotic choices. Uh, obviously New York, uh, and Asia.

[00:01:43] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:44] Djoann Fal: [00:01:45] Shanghai. Shanghai.

[00:01:45] Ronen Mense: Shanghai,

[00:01:47] Djoann Fal: of course. I chose Shanghai.

[00:01:48] Ronen Mense: Oh. Shanghai.

[00:01:50] Djoann Fal: Shanghai. Um, and so yeah, 2013 I arrived to work for Ton Young.

[00:01:56] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:58] Djoann Fal: Uh, first glimpse of [00:02:00] Asia, uh, and a big slap in my face. Mm-hmm. You know, because being French, we only watch, you know, documentaries about Asia with rice farmers and, you know, those type of,

[00:02:10] Ronen Mense: you’re expecting to see people on bicycles and

[00:02:13] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:02:13] Yeah, exactly. Right. And then you [00:02:15] arrive in Shanghai, boom, you know, you see skyscrapers like highways and, and SkyTrain. It’s, it’s almost like flying cars, but it’s like the future. It’s like the future. It’s like Star Wars, uh, cent. If you know Star [00:02:30] Wars, it’s like, wow. A big slap in your face, and then Yeah, you don’t want to go back.

[00:02:34] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:34] Djoann Fal: Uh, you, you are like, wow, this is, this, this is some special energy. Everybody’s young. Whereas, you know, back in France, it’s, it’s mainly old people in the street, right? Mm-hmm. And so [00:02:45] you feel like this, everything is possible. Um, and from there, um, I got the chance to be, uh, recruited by Rocket Internet.

[00:02:54] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:55] Djoann Fal: Uh, which was, you know, the cool thing at the time.

[00:02:57] Ronen Mense: Super cool. Those guys definitely [00:03:00] changed the shape of, uh, startups globally.

[00:03:02] Djoann Fal: Yeah. And 2014, first first few months I’ve seen this article on TechCrunch. Mm-hmm. The three biggest raised of 2014. So you had Uber.

[00:03:14] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:14] Djoann Fal: I [00:03:15] think it was $700 billion.

[00:03:16] Yeah. Then you had Pinterest mm-hmm. At, uh, 550, and then you had Lazada 350 million, uh, that rocket internet company. And so I was like, all right, I’m gonna check it out. And here I am in, in Southeast [00:03:30] Asia, in Singapore, then Bangkok working for Lazada. So that’s how I arrived here.

[00:03:35] Ronen Mense: That was quite a mafia there.

[00:03:37] Right.

[00:03:37] Djoann Fal: It’s, we, we still call it today the Lazada Mafia. And to be honest, this was, uh. I [00:03:45] think a very special moment in history.

[00:03:46] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:47] Djoann Fal: Uh, for this region.

[00:03:48] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:49] Djoann Fal: Where you had basically a bunch of Wall Street people, a bunch of ex Googlers.

[00:03:56] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:57] Djoann Fal: Um, who were just parachuted. [00:04:00] In the middle of nowhere, um, you know, in Southeast Asia to start e-commerce companies.

[00:04:06] And those, those brands, um, have really created the digital economy here so much that most of the funded, you know, [00:04:15] tech companies and e-commerce companies in the region, uh, have been originated by those people. Um, and I think this is beautiful, you know, because, um, that was the pitch of rock internet, and, you know, creating the next billion dollar economy in emerging markets, [00:04:30] um, and helping the locals to, to, to access e-commerce.

[00:04:33] And that was kind of a social impact mission actually, that they had in, in this, uh, introduction video that we watched. Um, so yeah, the Lazada episodes.

[00:04:44] Ronen Mense: Yeah, I [00:04:45] remember the, that like we used to actually have events here in, in Bangkok and anytime like a rocket company was talking like, uh, standing room only, right?

[00:04:54] Djoann Fal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fun. Uh, za Lazada, that all, yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s been a [00:05:00] interesting bunch of companies.

[00:05:02] Ronen Mense: The good times. And, and then, so you were working there, and then what did you, you decided to start your own thing?

[00:05:10] Djoann Fal: So to be honest, I had no interest of, you know, starting [00:05:15] my own thing.

[00:05:15] Mm-hmm. Being an entrepreneur. Um, I just wanted to hang out. Mm-hmm. You know, I was super young. I think I was 20, 22, 23. You still are super

[00:05:21] Ronen Mense: young.

[00:05:22] Djoann Fal: Yeah. But I was 10 years younger, so 22, 23 at the time. And, um, I was just graduating from my master degree.

[00:05:29] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:29] Djoann Fal: Just wanted to [00:05:30] hang out with other tech people.

[00:05:32] Um,

[00:05:33] Ronen Mense: and you were already here in Bangkok?

[00:05:35] Djoann Fal: Yeah. Uh, and so, uh, at the time, um. I just thought, okay, my day job is very interesting. Mm-hmm. I was just doing, you know, bi [00:05:45] mm-hmm. Basically, you know, data stuff.

[00:05:47] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:05:47] Djoann Fal: Uh, connecting APIs with dashboards and, and, and, and, uh, and, and basically creating marketing automated dashboards.

[00:05:56] Uh, so we could see, you know, how much money we’re spending in [00:06:00] each channel for each countries. And we used to be, uh, managing regional, uh, budgets. Mm-hmm. So, Indonesia, China, and Philippines. And so that was very data on screen. Mm-hmm. Excel programming type of job. So I, I was [00:06:15] not meeting anyone, so I thought, okay, I wanna meet some other people who walk in tech here.

[00:06:19] ’cause I’m a, I’m an expat,

[00:06:21] Ronen Mense: yeah.

[00:06:21] Djoann Fal: I wanna meet other people and I wanna meet locals who actually share the same, you know, interest in tech. And so, at the time, um. [00:06:30] My friend in Silicon Valley from, he, he was from my school and he was doing his first job in Silicon Valley was just, you should start a networking event.

[00:06:38] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:38] Djoann Fal: And, um, and they had a cool name. You know, they run this, this few events in San Francisco called [00:06:45] Drinks Entrepreneurs. Mm-hmm. I was like, okay, cool. All right. I try one. Uh, and here you go. We, we started drinking,

[00:06:53] Ronen Mense: what was the name of Drink? Entrepreneurs.

[00:06:54] Djoann Fal: Yeah. In Bangkok, uh, in 2014. Uh,

[00:06:59] Ronen Mense: I don’t remember being [00:07:00] at one of them, so it must have been successful.

[00:07:02] Djoann Fal: ’cause

[00:07:02] Ronen Mense: we were drinking.

[00:07:05] Djoann Fal: You were there a couple of times. I know. Was there, you were, I mean, you were there. I was actually at

[00:07:09] Ronen Mense: several of them. Yeah.

[00:07:10] Djoann Fal: Yeah. I think six, sixth time. If it’s not you, it is Jenna.

[00:07:14] Ronen Mense: Yeah. [00:07:15] Yeah.

[00:07:15] Djoann Fal: And so yeah, it, it’s overnight, uh, it is became the first month, you know, 50 people. Second month was a hundred mm-hmm.

[00:07:22] In another bar. And then, uh, third one was 300.

[00:07:26] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:27] Djoann Fal: Uh, at the hive, uh, the coworking space. Yeah. [00:07:30] For the opening actually, uh, 300 people. And we had a DJ and we had, uh, that DJ is actually super famous now.

[00:07:37] Ronen Mense: Oh

[00:07:38] Djoann Fal: yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

[00:07:39] Ronen Mense: so you launched some people’s careers?

[00:07:40] Djoann Fal: No, no, no. She was really talented. Yeah.

[00:07:43] Um, but anyway, so we [00:07:45] had all these business. Tech guys there. I mean, for that one, the third edition we had Pmu. Mm-hmm. From,

[00:07:52] Ronen Mense: yeah,

[00:07:53] Djoann Fal: we had Piot from everybody. There’s, you know, basically the sharks of the tech world. No.

[00:07:59] Ronen Mense: [00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:00] Djoann Fal: They, they were hanging out with us, you know, at the time back then. And then the fourth one.

[00:08:05] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:06] Djoann Fal: Uh, went completely insane. Uh, we, we, we, we had the first, uh, conference in Southeast Asia, uh, [00:08:15] echelon 2014. Uh,

[00:08:16] Ronen Mense: do you remember that? Yes. I remember

[00:08:17] Djoann Fal: small one, you know, 600 people. But they wanted an after party and they, they had no budget, no team. So they asked me and my friend to do one. Uh, and that’s where with another of my [00:08:30] buddy from Lazada, we decided to co organize this.

[00:08:33] And this one was 700 people. Nice. That was insane. Yeah. And so I ended up becoming part-time party organizer. Okay.

[00:08:44] Ronen Mense: So you got what [00:08:45] you came here for?

[00:08:45] Djoann Fal: Full tech, full tech people,

[00:08:48] Ronen Mense: data analyst by day, party analyst, uh, by night.

[00:08:51] Djoann Fal: Yeah, it was, uh, it was, it was really crazy because, you know, I didn’t expect that.

[00:08:55] Mm-hmm. And I made more money within that night than two months of [00:09:00] my salary in Lana.

[00:09:01] Ronen Mense: Yeah. Because

[00:09:02] Djoann Fal: apparently

[00:09:02] Ronen Mense: they didn’t.

[00:09:05] Djoann Fal: And with my buddy, um, we thought, okay, let’s just, um. Do these events once a month and, and make, make, uh, make money [00:09:15] through sponsorships and ticket sales.

[00:09:16] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:17] Djoann Fal: Um, and it was really fun to connect, you know, tech CEOs, um, with, with each other in a informal context with no business cards, you know?

[00:09:27] Yeah. Just a small bar and people can actually [00:09:30] talk about their problems.

[00:09:31] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:31] Djoann Fal: You know, because when you are also running a company, you cannot share that to everybody unless they really understand your industry. Uh, you know, hiring people, hiring people, you know, budget, all this stuff, did this, this, and so [00:09:45] that was kind of that safe place.

[00:09:46] Mm-hmm. Uh, and so we had everybody coming the line, CEO was coming at the time. We had the Google, CEO. Mm-hmm. And then we even started to have, uh, corporate. CEO, like we had ni CEO

[00:09:59] Ronen Mense: Wow.

[00:09:59] Djoann Fal: That, that [00:10:00] 60 years old woman managing a billion dollar CapEx, uh, she was coming because she wanted to learn about startups.

[00:10:07] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:08] Djoann Fal: Uh, and so that’s, that’s that 20 14th year where I got out of Lazada and, and started my [00:10:15] company.

[00:10:15] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:15] Djoann Fal: Accidentally a tech party organizing company, I guess with my buddy Pop Uhhuh. Uh, and then this, uh, pop became my co-founder.

[00:10:25] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:26] Djoann Fal: And we thought, okay, so what does these guys need? [00:10:30] You know, if we have, um, 600 tech CEOs coming

[00:10:35] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:10:36] Djoann Fal: Uh, in Bangkok, this is the, the whole ecosystem, right? All the agencies, all the e-commerce companies are all coming. What do they need? [00:10:45] And there were two things they needed. Three, uh, more clients.

[00:10:49] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:50] Djoann Fal: More people to work for them.

[00:10:51] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:10:52] Djoann Fal: And more money to invest in their companies.

[00:10:54] Ronen Mense: Yes.

[00:10:55] Djoann Fal: So we thought, let’s do a platform so we can connect them for the recruitment.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] And that’s how our marketplace started gettings.

[00:11:04] Ronen Mense: So you went from day job to night job to creating your own day job?

[00:11:11] Djoann Fal: Yeah. I did night job in Bangkok for six months.

[00:11:14] Ronen Mense: Yeah. [00:11:15] That’s pretty cool. So, so you founded Links co-founded that get links with, uh. Your partner, right? Yep. And then, um, actually you guys became quite, uh, quite successful here.

[00:11:29] Djoann Fal: I think it’s [00:11:30] the, it’s the momentum.

[00:11:31] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:11:32] Djoann Fal: We, we, we accidentally built a lot of momentum mm-hmm. With, with potential customers through that night job. Sounds wrong in Bangkok, but it’s, it’s, you know, those parties Yeah. Uh, connected us with a lot of CEOs like [00:11:45] yourself.

[00:11:45] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:45] Djoann Fal: Uh, who were starting the e-commerce company or the e-commerce enabling company.

[00:11:50] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:11:51] Djoann Fal: Uh, and that relationship we had over beard and transforming into a meeting at your office. Yeah. Okay. Do you guys need to hire people? Yes. You Okay. And here we go. And [00:12:00] then you guys signed up and got into the platform, and then we added, you know, so, so it was very natural momentum that we accidentally created.

[00:12:08] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:09] Djoann Fal: So, so we, uh, but, but on top of that, it was, I think the, the momentum we [00:12:15] created, um, once we realized that opportunity. ’cause I’ve seen, uh, a few years back, back in, in Europe, I’ve seen the explosion of the startup scene from nobody talks about tech. to Everybody [00:12:30] is doing tech within the span of few years.

[00:12:32] So I thought this might happen here too. And so I knew what framework were needed for an ecosystem like this to start. Um, and so those networking events were important. Those pitch nights were important. [00:12:45] Mm-hmm. Those hackathons were important. Uh, and those conferences were important and thanks to the incredible people I met at the time.

[00:12:51] Mm-hmm. Again, my co-founder pop, and then our co-founder doing the technology a mm-hmm. Um, we, we had that good team [00:13:00] of technology, marketing and operation to build. Basically the Swiss knife of what was needed for tech people. Mm-hmm. Uh, so that ended up leading us to building the first tech conference in Bangkok with 5,000 people.

[00:13:14] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm. [00:13:15]

[00:13:15] Djoann Fal: Uh, the startup job festival.

[00:13:17] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:18] Djoann Fal: 2015.

[00:13:19] Ronen Mense: Wow.

[00:13:19] Djoann Fal: Um, and I think from there we had so much momentum that a lot of people wanted to do something with us.

[00:13:27] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:28] Djoann Fal: Right. So we got invited to 500 [00:13:30] startups in Silicon Valley. So we’re the first, uh, Thai startup to go to the accelerator in San Francisco, uh, in Mountain View actually, and get funding from those US investors.

[00:13:41] Um, then we got invested for, from, from very large VC in [00:13:45] Japan who wanted to have exposure in Southeast Asia, and then that’s funded to do Vietnam.

[00:13:50] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:51] Djoann Fal: So I ended up going to Vietnam for a few years and, and do the same conference, 5,000 people in Vietnam. Mm-hmm. Uh, for those tech recruiting, [00:14:00] um, aspect.

[00:14:00] And, and basically we’ve just been opening countries after countries, uh, you know, China and Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Philippine. Yeah. And here you go. Took 10 years of my life and I didn’t really realize [00:14:15] anything and I’m just like 10 years older. Uh, and that’s was very fast.

[00:14:20] Ronen Mense: And so you exited from the company?

[00:14:22] Djoann Fal: Yeah. So that’s, you sold it. That was, um, that was the beauty of, mm-hmm. How lucky we’ve been. [00:14:30]

[00:14:30] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:30] Djoann Fal: Being, I think, you know, at the easy times. Mm-hmm. Um, because it was, uh, it was, it was luck that we engineered, but it was also the, the environment. Right. So, so, so I had the chance, uh, to scale the company to [00:14:45] basically 10 million and revenue, us talking, um, across six countries.

[00:14:50] Mm-hmm. And, and, um, and that was 60, right? Yeah. There’s not many B2B uh, platforms in that region that are making 10 million US dollar a year. [00:15:00] Uh, and growing.

[00:15:01] Ronen Mense: Yes.

[00:15:01] Djoann Fal: Um, and so, so Alibaba came in. Mm-hmm. As one of our investor and client, uh, and then Jobs db.

[00:15:09] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:09] Djoann Fal: Uh, you know, the owner of Jobs DB actually, uh, came in as, as our investor.

[00:15:14] [00:15:15] And, and, and that’s, that’s how I could, uh, get a bit of cash. Yeah. For, for, for, for myself. And, and, um, it’s, it’s been a long story. We have got really a lot of different, uh, experiences. It’s, it’s having been hard at some [00:15:30] point, you know, we’ve been through a lot, you know, during COVID we thought we were gonna die.

[00:15:34] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:34] Djoann Fal: And actually we ended up turning the company around and becoming profitable. Um, so it haven’t been easy.

[00:15:41] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:41] Djoann Fal: But I think thanks to the combination we had with, [00:15:45] you know, me being French and my other co-founders being Chinese and Thais mm-hmm. Uh, with different level of experience mm-hmm. The marathon, there were always one dude running.

[00:15:54] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:15:54] Djoann Fal: You know, and that’s what makes that company still alive today.

[00:15:58] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:58] Djoann Fal: But, but, and [00:16:00] one of our co-founder is, is running the company, so that’s. That’s good for me. Yeah. My first baby is alive. Your

[00:16:06] Ronen Mense: first baby is alive. And it’s growing, right?

[00:16:09] Djoann Fal: It’s growing. So, so I think it’s, it’s a lucky one. I think today there’s so much competition [00:16:15] in technology.

[00:16:16] Um, it would be a different story. Right. Uh, but we were in a blue, in a blue ocean at the time.

[00:16:22] Ronen Mense: Yeah. Speaking of blue oceans, right. I think that you went from being a startup [00:16:30] founder. Well, working in a startup to being a startup founder. Then as you progressed, you actually started mentoring startups, right.

[00:16:38] And funding startups.

[00:16:41] Djoann Fal: So, um, with a

[00:16:43] Ronen Mense: focus,

[00:16:44] Djoann Fal: yeah. Right. With a [00:16:45] focus in sustainability. In fact, my. This activity in sustainability started even before. Mm-hmm. Uh, my, my technology, uh, experience in Asia.

[00:16:58] Ronen Mense: Yeah. Where did that come from? [00:17:00]

[00:17:00] Djoann Fal: So when I was a student mm-hmm. Back in France, um, I, I went to a conference, it was called, uh, we share conference.

[00:17:11] Ronen Mense: We share,

[00:17:11] Djoann Fal: yeah. Okay. Sharing economy.

[00:17:13] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:17:14] Djoann Fal: Um, and I [00:17:15] met a crazy dude who basically wa was a, was a lab guy.

[00:17:20] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:21] Djoann Fal: Uh, PhD in biotechnology. And, um, he wanted to create a space for other PhDs [00:17:30] to hack. Um, and I was like, this guy is crazy. He’s doing really deep tech stuff. Mm-hmm. I’m interested. So we became friends and, um, we started with a, a bunch of other PhDs, um [00:17:45] mm-hmm.

[00:17:45] Makerspace or a hacker space in Paris. That was using technology for good. Now that thing, uh, was with zero money.

[00:17:56] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:57] Djoann Fal: It was not even an NGO yet. It was just a [00:18:00] space in an abandoned train station in Paris.

[00:18:06] Ronen Mense: Sounds suspicious.

[00:18:07] Djoann Fal: It sounds suspicious. And we used to run, you know, meetups for, you know, we had design school and business school and [00:18:15] they just wanted to learn how to use, you know, lab equipments, uh, to do cool, fun stuff. So we had designers who wanted to make art with bacterias.

[00:18:24] Ronen Mense: Was that the train station that.

[00:18:26] It’s a spider that Peter Parker and turned into [00:18:30] Spider.

[00:18:30] Djoann Fal: It could have been. I’m, I’m telling you. Uh, and, and so that was like 13 years ago before I came here. And so we were doing those meetups and one day the police came and shut us down because we had illegal lab equipment. [00:18:45] We could do DNA scene at a time.

[00:18:47] Ronen Mense: Oh my God.

[00:18:48] Djoann Fal: Well,

[00:18:48] Ronen Mense: who knows what the police thought you were doing?

[00:18:50] Djoann Fal: We could have created virus and stuff. Of course. We were not doing that stuff. Yeah. We were just, you know, having fun and

[00:18:54] Ronen Mense: yeah,

[00:18:54] Djoann Fal: a bunch of people were just, uh, computer hackers, you know, they just wanted to have, uh, [00:19:00] a, a server where they could run fun stuff.

[00:19:02] Another, another bunch were doing robots and some other we’re doing shipping. Printing. Some other we’re doing actually a, yeah, DNA sequencing, but they were all students, you know, and they just wanted a, a safe

[00:19:14] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm. [00:19:15]

[00:19:15] Djoann Fal: Place where they could do their stuff, whether to be at school, because close, the school closed pretty early, right.

[00:19:21] Um, and so that space shut down by the police and we made the news, uh, and the news was Lamar, [00:19:30] it’s, the article is still there. You can check it out. It’s called LaPas. Okay. Um, and it’s got us a lot of press, uh, so much that the mayor of Paris invited us to do a meeting,

[00:19:44] Ronen Mense: Uhhuh. [00:19:45]

[00:19:45] Djoann Fal: Uh, and she really liked the idea actually of, you know, creating a safe space for anyone to learn technology, even though, you know, they, they’re not in a expensive school of engineers or anything, and she gives us, um, [00:20:00] a million dollar a euro actually, uh, to start an actual space legally mm-hmm.

[00:20:04] With NGO. Uh, and so that was my first, you know, step into mm-hmm. Sustainability. Mm-hmm. Creating that maker [00:20:15] community for good. So we had a bunch of people who just wanted to use technology for good, um, either, um, enabling people to, um, access, you know, robots, um, bill robots or three printing or electronics.[00:20:30]

[00:20:30] Uh, and basically it was really much anything that could make the world better.

[00:20:34] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:35] Djoann Fal: Right. So sustainability applied to robotics or sustainability applied to biotechnology, you know, um, and that [00:20:45] thing, uh, got to create a bunch of startups that are know worth a lot of money. Uh, one of them, for example, that was just a bunch of student at the time, and they were, they were, they wanted to hack with bacterias that, [00:21:00] uh, that bacteria that is in the octopus.

[00:21:02] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:03] Djoann Fal: So maybe you know already, but the octopus have this black ink.

[00:21:07] Ronen Mense: Yes.

[00:21:08] Djoann Fal: So it’s actually generated by a bacteria. Inside the octopus. And so if you found that bacteria, [00:21:15] uh, you can create ink without using oil. See where I’m going?

[00:21:20] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:21:20] Djoann Fal: And the oil, the oil used to create your colors and your t-shirt is, it’s a lot of oil.

[00:21:26] Ronen Mense: Oh yes.

[00:21:27] Djoann Fal: It’s very heavy process.

[00:21:29] Ronen Mense: Oh,

[00:21:29] Djoann Fal: really? [00:21:30] Polluting, using a lot of water. A lot of, or a lot of energy.

[00:21:33] Ronen Mense: What is it? I think it, it’s like takes 2000 liters to die water

[00:21:38] Djoann Fal: one. Yeah.

[00:21:38] Ronen Mense: To make one T-shirt. Right. It’s, it’s crazy.

[00:21:40] Djoann Fal: And so no think,

[00:21:41] Ronen Mense: and I was in the t-shirt business, by the way, for a little while.

[00:21:43] Djoann Fal: So, so you know how [00:21:45] dirty

[00:21:45] Ronen Mense: story for

[00:21:45] Djoann Fal: another time?

[00:21:46] This, this ink.

[00:21:47] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:21:47] Djoann Fal: Uh, industry and fast fashion is, and so these guys were the bench of student taking that new process. Mm-hmm. Taking those batter bacterias from the octopus and making ink. Basically [00:22:00] with zero e, EE energy.

[00:22:02] Ronen Mense: Wow. That’s cool.

[00:22:03] Djoann Fal: Um, and so know these company is, is worth a hundred million dollars.

[00:22:06] It’s called Pilly. Okay. Uh, and it, it’s been originated from that makerspace 13 years ago.

[00:22:13] Ronen Mense: Wow.

[00:22:13] Djoann Fal: So it’s just one of the [00:22:15] example. We, we had like 30 or 40 different companies who’s got to spin out of this makerspace. And so my. Sustainability story. Mm-hmm. Um, started way before getting links.

[00:22:28] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:22:28] Djoann Fal: Um, it’s just that I got [00:22:30] too attracted by the money e-commerce.

[00:22:32] Mm-hmm. And so I left my buddies abandoned them

[00:22:36] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:22:37] Djoann Fal: Uh, for 10 years mm-hmm. To do e-commerce and make a lot of money.

[00:22:42] Ronen Mense: So sustainability wasn’t sexy enough, was it?

[00:22:44] Djoann Fal: It was [00:22:45] not because it was just NGO stuff.

[00:22:47] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:22:47] Djoann Fal: You know, um, basically we were depending on the budget from the government.

[00:22:52] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:53] Djoann Fal: And at any time, the government, you know, we had only that, that pocket of money and that was going down every month.

[00:22:59] So [00:23:00] as a fresh graduate, I couldn’t start my career being CEO of this NGO because just, you know, limiting myself so much. And on top of that, I had no fucking idea of what I was doing. Yeah. I was the only business guy, and I was just a student [00:23:15] in, in master, you know?

[00:23:16] Ronen Mense: Yeah. So

[00:23:18] Djoann Fal: how was I going to do any business?

[00:23:20] So I thought it would be. A better bet for me and my group of friends to actually go have a experience [00:23:30] in another continent, in actual business. Mm-hmm. And technology to potentially later come back to that thing, because that’s where my heart was.

[00:23:39] Ronen Mense: This was kind of a, like, almost, I mean, when you look back, right, you can now plot these dots of [00:23:45] where you started, where you went, and it’s almost like a full circle, but with a lot of experience with the knowhow of, of basically how to build a business, sustainability.[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] And, you know, if we fast forward to where you are today, right? You’re, you’re. You know, knee deep in, uh, in environmental technology, climate tech.

[00:24:11] Djoann Fal: Yeah. I, I see that more like my first girlfriend [00:24:15] at University

[00:24:16] Ronen Mense: Uhhuh

[00:24:16] Djoann Fal: that I abandoned.

[00:24:18] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:24:19] Djoann Fal: And that, because I was not ready.

[00:24:21] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:24:22] Djoann Fal: And then 10 years later we come back and get married.

[00:24:25] Ronen Mense: Did you, is that the one

[00:24:27] Djoann Fal: basically that’s what I’m marrying now.

[00:24:29] Ronen Mense: [00:24:30] Wow.

[00:24:30] Djoann Fal: Right. Like climate tech.

[00:24:31] Ronen Mense: Yes,

[00:24:32] Djoann Fal: absolutely. Right. That’s, that’s why I’m putting all my money, all my contacts, all my time now.

[00:24:37] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:38] Djoann Fal: Um, but it took 10 years of experience and maturity to be finally ready to [00:24:45] do that.

[00:24:46] Ronen Mense: I, I have to say that, um.

[00:24:50] You know, you started writing a blog and a newsletter about this, uh, about Atlas, uh, your, your fund, right? And, and climate [00:25:00] tech. And actually that’s been my source of learning. But not only that, it’s also been my inspiration.

[00:25:05] Djoann Fal: Thank you so much

[00:25:06] Ronen Mense: that one day and I’m no longer at the apps flyer seat. I’m gonna come work for you.

[00:25:14] Djoann Fal: Please.

[00:25:14] Ronen Mense: Walking, [00:25:15] I’m with my future boss here.

[00:25:16] Djoann Fal: Keep walking, keep walking as flyer and, and do cool things like you’re doing today in the meantime. Um, and, and help apps flyer to be greener.

[00:25:25] Ronen Mense: Oh yeah, we are definitely doing that.

[00:25:27] Djoann Fal: All, doing more impact, you know, and, and I think [00:25:30] just like you remember, 10 years ago we talked about this, right?

[00:25:34] No one talked about tech. Yeah. And know everybody, every companies is a tech company. Yeah. I, I think, I think we’re at the, at the very down of that new process Yeah. [00:25:45] Of transforming every companies to be a green company.

[00:25:48] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:25:49] Djoann Fal: Um, and so important 10 years from now, I think we’ll look back at this, this podcast and be like, oh yeah,

[00:25:55] Ronen Mense: that was

[00:25:56] Djoann Fal: the old days.

[00:25:57] Ronen Mense: Yeah. The old days set the trend.

[00:25:59] Djoann Fal: Right. [00:26:00] And, and it’s, but the thing is, I think it’s accelerating much faster. Like, it, it might not even be a 10 year cycle, it might be just a 5 year cycle. If you look at the amount of money

[00:26:09] Ronen Mense: that

[00:26:10] Djoann Fal: Is being deployed in green tech companies at the moment, we are talking about something that is, [00:26:15] you know, 4x bigger than the internet bubble.

[00:26:19] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:21] Djoann Fal: So the internet, the whole internet bubble, uh, that created Google, Facebook, Amazon, those guys, they’ve raised only [00:26:30] 22 billion Mm-hmm. Only last year.

[00:26:34] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:34] Djoann Fal: The climate tech thing have raised 69 billions. So we’re totaling for the past four years, [00:26:45] 147 billion us Don,

[00:26:48] Ronen Mense: is there more money than ideas out there right now?

[00:26:50] Djoann Fal: Yes. That’s the actual problem.

[00:26:52] Ronen Mense: That’s the

[00:26:53] Djoann Fal: problem. You, you pointed out there’s too much money, and

[00:26:56] Ronen Mense: not

[00:26:57] Djoann Fal: enough entrepreneurs.

[00:26:58] Ronen Mense: Everyone, all these [00:27:00] investors and companies they just don’t know when to invest. They, wanna invest in this, but they just, Don’t know where to put it.

[00:27:05] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:27:06] Ronen Mense: And, that probably is the biggest problem.

[00:27:07] Like, how do you, that’s

[00:27:08] Djoann Fal: the problem.

[00:27:09] Ronen Mense: How do you vet something that is. Actually sustainable that works. [00:27:15] Um, and that is gonna change the world. And I, I guess that’s probably,

[00:27:18] Djoann Fal: and bankable funders.

[00:27:20] Ronen Mense: Bankable funders.

[00:27:21] Djoann Fal: So right now you, you have outta these a 140+ billion you have 90% of it is dry powder.

[00:27:29] That is [00:27:30] slowly Dripping. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, this money is going to be deployed

[00:27:35] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:27:35] Djoann Fal: Next few years. So that’s why I’m saying I think it might not even take 10 years. It might just take four or five years. Because that’s usually the deployment [00:27:45] cycle of these funds.

[00:27:46] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:46] Djoann Fal: So, yeah.

[00:27:48] Ronen Mense: What, what is some of the stuff that you are seeing right now in.

[00:27:52] Environmental tech, clean tech, that’s really making you excited and, and making you hopeful that the future is, is, is brighter [00:28:00] than, uh, a lot of people think it’s gonna be.

[00:28:03] Djoann Fal: Uh, we can, we can do short term, midterm and, and long term. Mm-hmm. Um, so short term, uh, two weeks ago,

[00:28:10] Ronen Mense: yes.

[00:28:10] Djoann Fal: We, uh, we, we’ve, we’ve done our biggest deal actually, [00:28:15] uh, I can talk about it now because, uh, it’s, uh, it’s public.

[00:28:19] Uh, so we facilitated 15 million US dollar investment into a company that is in the us mm-hmm. And does, uh, sustainable aviation fuels. Mm-hmm. Uh, their process is [00:28:30] basically sucking in CO2 from the air

[00:28:32] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:28:33] Djoann Fal: And recombining that, uh, carbon

[00:28:35] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:28:36] Djoann Fal: Into methane and other, uh, products. Uh, and one of them is actually creating sustainable aviation fuels.

[00:28:43] Ronen Mense: Is that in real time? [00:28:45]

[00:28:45] Djoann Fal: Uh, it’s hardware company.

[00:28:47] So

[00:28:47] Ronen Mense: like a plane can be flying

[00:28:48] Djoann Fal: and like, yes. So, so, um, so that company got, um. A big, uh, letter of intent. Mm-hmm. Um, from, uh, United.

[00:28:57] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:59] Djoann Fal: The airline in the US and, [00:29:00] and a few others, we’re talking about $200 million, um, pre-acquisition. Mm-hmm. So for the next 10 years, United will fly using that, uh, that, that fuel.

[00:29:10] Uh, and that’s very good for the company. Mm-hmm. Because United then, you know, is, is is [00:29:15] dropping, its CO2 emission by 30% or something like this. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that, that, that wrong was 300 million us. Uh, so that’s series C. It’s quite late. Um, but this is something very sexy because, you know, you’re touching infrastructure [00:29:30] here, you are doing factory stuff.

[00:29:32] Mm-hmm. And this is something that is proven already that just has scaled and you, you really touch, um, entrepreneurs and, and teams that are making the impact. It’s not an idea, it’s not moonshot. It’s not like, oh, maybe in the [00:29:45] future we’re gonna do quantum. It’s not, it’s. We can use that stuff today.

[00:29:49] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:50] Djoann Fal: And we can work with conglomerates like the airlines to get them to reduce their CO2 emissions. Yesterday. Mm-hmm. Actually, so, so that’s, that’s an exciting deal [00:30:00] we worked on and, and that’s, um, that’s one of the biggest deal we’ve done so far, and we’re, we’re happy to, to

[00:30:05] Ronen Mense: congrats. That’s super cool

[00:30:06] Djoann Fal: to work on that.

[00:30:07] Um, now, um, I think there’s a lot of excitement this year about, uh, uh, what we call safs. Mm-hmm. Sustainable [00:30:15] aviation fuels, uh, where my, my midterm interest is, uh, is more into what we call the built environment. Mm-hmm. Decarbonization and specifically adaptation.

[00:30:28] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:29] Djoann Fal: So if [00:30:30] you look at all the deals that we’ve done with Atlas Capital, with our, our first pilot fund mm-hmm.

[00:30:34] We’ve done 10 deals. Um, they were all connected somehow to making the cities

[00:30:41] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:30:41] Djoann Fal: Adapted to climate change.

[00:30:43] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:44] Djoann Fal: Uh, and this [00:30:45] is something where being, uh, being based in, in Singapore, uh, you know, and having this exposure to Southeast Asia, we see how heat waves mm-hmm. Are impacting us.

[00:30:54] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:30:55] Djoann Fal: Um, and also we see how air conditioning system are so [00:31:00] important for life.

[00:31:00] Ronen Mense: You, you’ve just come back to. Bangkok not recently, right?

[00:31:04] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:31:05] Ronen Mense: And you two days you feel

[00:31:06] Djoann Fal: Yeah. The heat wave.

[00:31:08] Ronen Mense: It’s, it’s intense.

[00:31:09] Djoann Fal: It’s insane.

[00:31:10] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:31:10] Djoann Fal: And I was in France and Europe for the past two month, and it was cold. You know, we had to [00:31:15] light the fire at my place, you know? And the

[00:31:18] Ronen Mense: chateau that you were staying in,

[00:31:19] Djoann Fal: uh, this was, this was just, uh, a night.

[00:31:22] But, but, but yeah, that, that, that, that heat is insane. And it’s not just, um, [00:31:30] about, oh, I have a cool air con anymore. It’s if there’s no air con, I might be dying.

[00:31:34] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:34] Djoann Fal: Like there’s been cases

[00:31:36] Ronen Mense: Yes.

[00:31:36] Djoann Fal: Uh, and not one, there’s been multiple thousands, multiple Yes. Of cases of people dying from heat. And that’s not [00:31:45] just in Southeast Asia, uh, that’s also in the US and there’s that case of that, uh, woman of 62 years old.

[00:31:52] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:52] Djoann Fal: Um, she was living in Phoenix, Arizona and she forgot to pay [00:32:00] $1 out of the $51. She was due to her electricity provider.

[00:32:03] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:04] Djoann Fal: Uh, and there’s been a heat wave. Four hours later she died. For $1.

[00:32:09] Ronen Mense: Wow.

[00:32:10] Djoann Fal: Electric electricity provider just cut the electricity, you know, that’s automated mechanism. [00:32:15] And with no air Con, that woman died and 60 years old.

[00:32:18] Yes. It’s an older person. Um, but she was not, you know, obese or anything. She, she could be your, your, your mom. Like, uh, my mom, my mom’s a little bit older [00:32:30] and, and, and she was not, you know, you know, having any, any, uh, any specific factors? Sense? Sense. So, so, so this is in the us This is not in the middle of the jungle.

[00:32:41] So if you look at Southeast Asia, um, the air conditioning [00:32:45] systems, the heating and cooling specifically. Mm-hmm. Uh, gonna need to be very solid. Mm-hmm. Because in 2023, Southeast Asia had faced 52 days of heat waves.

[00:32:56] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:57] Djoann Fal: On average. Mm-hmm. But in 2024, we’re [00:33:00] talking about 75 already.

[00:33:02] Ronen Mense: Already.

[00:33:03] Djoann Fal: That is plants.

[00:33:05] So, so, so what about 20, 25? Right. And so, so that air conditioning system is a mother of life and death.

[00:33:13] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:14] Djoann Fal: So I think this [00:33:15] is where I’m excited, uh, how to retrofit. How to renovate. Mm-hmm. Those air conditioning systems to be using less power. Mm-hmm. And emitting less, uh, greenhouse gases. Mm-hmm. Um, because of course, you know, if you live here, you [00:33:30] got, you’re gonna have your account all day long.

[00:33:31] Ronen Mense: So there’s a technology that, that

[00:33:33] Djoann Fal: is, there’s a lot of technologies, uh, that we’ve been looking at in that, into that space. We’ve done investment into that space as well. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:39] Ronen Mense: What’s an example of like, what it can do?

[00:33:41] Djoann Fal: So, one of our portfolio company, uh, and we, I will show you one [00:33:45] example in one of the company we’re investing in now.

[00:33:46] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:33:47] Djoann Fal: Uh, one of them, uh, is actually doing building retro filling. Mm-hmm. So they are actually creating isolation material that can isolate the room better. So the effort of your air conditioning is reduced [00:34:00] by 50%. Mm-hmm. Because it, it, it doesn’t need that much, uh, work. Mm-hmm. And, and leg work to cool your room.

[00:34:08] Uh, so insulation of your, your, your room, your office is actually a big factor of keeping the cool air [00:34:15] inside. That’s one of our investment of a company in, in the us. They’re based in Chicago, and of course they could apply their technology in Southeast Asia if we find the right partner. So we hook them up with a hotel, uh, chain, actually, and know they’re talking together to implement, [00:34:30] implement that installation materials.

[00:34:33] Another example. Um, it’s, um, it’s, it’s, it’s a company in, in, in the uk um, that is actually also with a really big potential for Southeast Asia. Um, they [00:34:45] do what we call heat pumps.

[00:34:46] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:47] Djoann Fal: So it’s a new system. It’s actually a very old system. Mm-hmm. But they are putting it in a new fashion.

[00:34:54] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:54] Djoann Fal: Uh, so it’s cheaper.

[00:34:56] And this is more scalable and mobile.

[00:34:58] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:58] Djoann Fal: So, you know, when you have an air [00:35:00] conditioning system, you need to drill the hole and then you need to plug it into electricity. And that’s greenhouse gas emitted, you know, because we use Xon and other air, other gas that are quite hard to produce, to cool the air.

[00:35:11] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:13] Djoann Fal: So this one is just [00:35:15] pumping the air from the outside inside.

[00:35:18] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:18] Djoann Fal: And that process can be just installed, plug and play on your window where you don’t need to drill a hole. Mm-hmm. You just took. That’s it. So [00:35:30] this company is the next billion dollar company for Southeast Asia. Mm-hmm. Uh, I won’t tell the name because you know, that’s, but if you guys want to learn more about those type of deals, uh, we do have a lot of interesting companies we are investing in.

[00:35:44] [00:35:45] Uh, and, um, and yeah, so this, I think is the future for Southeast Asia, the built environment.

[00:35:50] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:50] Djoann Fal: And this is very much what we’ve been focusing on for the past two years through our investment and also through our next fund investment thesis. Yeah.

[00:35:59] Ronen Mense: [00:36:00] Tell, tell us about Atlas a little bit. Like what, what’s the, you know, how, how, how can the audience maybe possibly get involved with, uh, what you guys are doing?

[00:36:09] Djoann Fal: Yeah, so, so Atlas Capital is, uh, Southeast Asia first. Mm-hmm. Uh, fund in [00:36:15] technology that is dedicated solely on climate technology adaptation

[00:36:18] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:36:19] Djoann Fal: For the built environment and industrial mitigation. So what, what do we do? Um, it’s simple. We work with conglomerates in Southeast Asia, uh, that [00:36:30] have a large footprint, industrial footprints, talking gigatons of CO2, and, uh, we help them decarbonize their value chain.

[00:36:40] So mainly it’s gonna be real estate, you know, hotel chains, [00:36:45] construction companies, uh, and also all these big industrials like logistics. Mm-hmm. You know, companies, for example. And what we do is simple. We source companies for them. We let them invest directly into these companies and we [00:37:00] co-invest with them in some of the companies as well.

[00:37:01] Mm-hmm. So, uh, so far we’ve done our first pilot fund, uh, two years ago, uh, with 10 investments, and now we’re doing a second fund. Mm-hmm. Uh, aiming for 30 investments mm-hmm. Uh, into climate technology companies. [00:37:15] In the US and also in Southeast Asia.

[00:37:18] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:18] Djoann Fal: So that’s Atlas Capital.

[00:37:20] Ronen Mense: And, and what’s the, the current size of the, the fund?

[00:37:24] Djoann Fal: Uh, so for the second fund it’s 25 million us.

[00:37:26] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:37:27] Djoann Fal: And then we have a pilot fund, uh, which is, uh, [00:37:30] which is very small. Mm-hmm. Uh, we do, we do this pilot fund once a year mm-hmm. For one to 2 million US, don. So we have two different, uh, customers. One customer are the large conglomerates and family offices that can invest, you know, 1 million US dollar [00:37:45] minimum per check.

[00:37:46] Yeah. Uh, and then you have the, so the small fund, which is basically for our tech friends and stuff. And this is the 20,000 US donor ticket. Uh, so pretty much any business owner can participate to this one if they want to [00:38:00] diversify, uh, from, you know, stock markets, real estate. Um, maybe some of them do crypto.

[00:38:06] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:07] Djoann Fal: Uh, so we, we we’re not in December kind of crypto, of course.

[00:38:10] Ronen Mense: Right.

[00:38:10] Djoann Fal: For us it’s hardware, it’s,

[00:38:12] Ronen Mense: there’s even crypto green crypto. Right. [00:38:15]

[00:38:15] Djoann Fal: There’s

[00:38:15] Ronen Mense: been, but in fact, I think there’s a company in Canada that is actually, uh, um, carbon neutral on, uh, Bitcoin mining.

[00:38:22] Djoann Fal: Okay.

[00:38:22] Ronen Mense: Yeah. Um, I think they’re the, it’s called Sato, SATO, and they’re listed on, uh, some [00:38:30] exchange there.

[00:38:31] Djoann Fal: Okay.

[00:38:31] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:38:32] Djoann Fal: Yeah. So, so, um. So, yeah, so we don’t do crypto though. Uh, yeah. And, um, and we’re very cautious on, on the investments we are making.

[00:38:40] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:40] Djoann Fal: Uh, we invest only in hardware, physical mm-hmm. Uh, [00:38:45] stuff with bankable funders that made either an exit before or had worked in the industry, um, of the product they’re making and a CTO that have a PhD, uh, in science mm-hmm.

[00:38:58] In the domain that they’re applying [00:39:00] here and, uh, already existing customers

[00:39:03] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:39:03] Djoann Fal: That are buying their product. Uh, and, uh, this has to be carbon neutral or help greatly on the adaptation of the industry to climate change.

[00:39:13] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:13] Djoann Fal: So we, we have, we [00:39:15] have a set of very specific criteria.

[00:39:16] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:17] Djoann Fal: Um, and I think that’s what made us to have such great performances.

[00:39:21] Mm-hmm. Uh, over the past two years, we’ve beaten in the market, uh, the stock market 11.4 times. Uh, so if you have invested, [00:39:30] you know, yeah. Uh, 10 in the stock market, and if you had invested 10 in Atlas, well, uh, we’ve got some pretty good, you know, results so far. Um, but yeah, it’s a long game. Yes. Uh, it’s a long game.

[00:39:43] Ronen Mense: That’s super awesome. [00:39:45]

[00:39:45] Djoann Fal: Thank you. It’s really interesting the people we are meeting every day Yeah. Uh, are really dedicated to, to change the plan. There

[00:39:53] Ronen Mense: must be so much passion Yeah. In these founders, right? Yeah. And what, what, like, have you found like a common [00:40:00] thread between founders, you know, of these type of companies, like something that drives them to do this?

[00:40:08] Like, is there, you know, something that you, you’ve noticed what?

[00:40:12] Djoann Fal: Well, if it’s fake. We will [00:40:15] feel it. Mm-hmm. Or I, I can feel it when I talk to them. Mm. And I, we just don’t want to hear about them.

[00:40:19] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:19] Djoann Fal: Uh, so, so a lot of people are here for the money.

[00:40:22] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:23] Djoann Fal: They don’t, they don’t care really about the planet, or they don’t care really about, you know, uh.

[00:40:28] Climate, they just [00:40:30] see, oh, there’s an opportunity. Oh, I’m gonna make money. So those people usually are the carbon credit bros. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and so we don’t touch that. Uh, and the, it, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of the first step. When you get into [00:40:45] climate tech, the first thing you, you think, oh, I can help is doing a software for credit carbon credit accounting.

[00:40:52] So not everyone is a bad carbon credit bro. Okay. So a lot of people just discovering this as a first entry step [00:41:00] into that, uh, whole continent of cli. So that’s fine. Mm-hmm. But, um, you quickly. If you are curious enough, and if you are really motivated enough to do something for the planet, you will realize that there’s something way more interesting, [00:41:15] uh, a bit further in there.

[00:41:16] You know, uh, for example, I don’t know, batteries.

[00:41:20] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:21] Djoann Fal: Recycling batteries or, or agriculture tech or, you know, uh, a WD or, or heating and cooling or [00:41:30] logistics, decarbonization, there’s so many more interesting topics than carbon credits. Mm-hmm. So usually, um, you will, you will see those people going a bit further than that.

[00:41:41] Um, and, and, and, and yeah, the passion is, [00:41:45] is really I think, something that people have in common who works there because it’s a nascent industry. So you might not be making as much money, uh, as if you work for a finance company or for FinTech or for, uh, [00:42:00] whatever, you know, e-commerce company. Um, so it’s, it’s real bet that those people are taking on their career.

[00:42:06] Um, and like every other industries, you know, all these startups, 99% of them will die.

[00:42:12] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:12] Djoann Fal: Uh, but the 2%, [00:42:15] uh, the 1 or 2% that will survive, uh, there will be the next Google and Apple of these industries. Uh, and we’re talking about energy here. Yeah. Uh, so who is the next PTT? Yeah. Who is the next total?

[00:42:29] Who [00:42:30] is the next ExxonMobil?

[00:42:31] Ronen Mense: Yes.

[00:42:32] Djoann Fal: Who is the next, uh, you know, real estate. You have GLL, right? Who is the next real estate developer? It’s gonna be a, a green register developer. Right. So, so that’s the 1% we’re looking at. [00:42:45]

[00:42:46] Ronen Mense: Do you, um, do you have any views on, uh, electric vehicles? And, uh, batteries and,

[00:42:55] Djoann Fal: okay. So let’s step back a little bit and, and be very cautious on this topic because it’s a sensitive [00:43:00] one.

[00:43:00] So if you look at, um,

[00:43:02] Ronen Mense: I ask because we’ve had several people on, on, uh, the podcast talking about ev the EV revolution.

[00:43:07] Djoann Fal: Yeah. So, so, um, the overall, uh, GSG emission

[00:43:13] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:43:14] Djoann Fal: Is a pie like [00:43:15] this, you know, it’s like, can, can I have your glass?

[00:43:17] Ronen Mense: Yeah, there you go.

[00:43:18] Djoann Fal: So this is, uh, this is the total amount of, uh, GSG we emit per year.

[00:43:24] Ronen Mense: Yep.

[00:43:24] Djoann Fal: A hundred percent.

[00:43:25] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:43:26] Djoann Fal: Right. Um, and so, so, uh, I think we’re at [00:43:30] 35, uh, gigatons of CO2 pay.

[00:43:32] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:43:34] Djoann Fal: Um, sounds

[00:43:35] Ronen Mense: like a lot. It’s, it’s a lot.

[00:43:36] Djoann Fal: Um, all countries combine now.

[00:43:39] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:43:39] Djoann Fal: So if you remove, um, China and India, uh, if you just take [00:43:45] Europe for example. Mm-hmm. Uh, you are at six gigatons. Right. Um, and European is a market, uh, where we sell a lot of EV cars.

[00:43:52] Mm-hmm. So here, and then if you look at how much CO2 [00:44:00] those cars in Europe emits, it’s just this.

[00:44:03] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:04] Djoann Fal: It’s less than basically 10%. The same amount of CO2 is emitted by the heating systems of Europe houses.

[00:44:14] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm. [00:44:15]

[00:44:16] Djoann Fal: Okay. So just the heating of the houses in winter is about, you know,

[00:44:21] Ronen Mense: 10%.

[00:44:22] Djoann Fal: Yeah. 10%. Um, now the investment amount that EV got

[00:44:28] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.[00:44:30]

[00:44:30] Djoann Fal: Compared to any other verticals in climate, is this. Instead of investment amount. Mm-hmm. So is this an industry that we need, maybe we need EV cars. Mm-hmm. Do we need that much funding in [00:44:45] there? No.

[00:44:46] Ronen Mense: So it’s overfunded.

[00:44:47] Djoann Fal: It’s overfunded, and the impact is very, very minimum compared to other vertical.

[00:44:52] Ronen Mense: It’s like $10 to.

[00:44:54] Get one.

[00:44:55] Djoann Fal: So, so I think, uh, this is of course a good,

[00:44:59] Ronen Mense: I think [00:45:00] that’s fine.

[00:45:00] Djoann Fal: I’m not blaming, uh, any, actually it’s fine. I’m not blaming anyone doing ev uh, I just think there is more important subject matter.

[00:45:07] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:08] Djoann Fal: Uh, decarbonizing, uh, airlines, decarbonizing logistics, you know, the shipping, uh, [00:45:15] global shipping is, is, is nearly 30%

[00:45:18] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:45:18] Djoann Fal: Of the global CO2 emission.

[00:45:19] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:45:20] Djoann Fal: Industrial logistics and shipping. Uh, uh, so whereas cars is just like, you know, 7%. So yeah, there’s other priorities, uh, if you’re [00:45:30] true to yourself, if you’re not here just for the sake of being cool and do climate, if you actually care about your child’s, uh, future, uh, and if you are scared about, you know, heat waves mm-hmm.

[00:45:42] Forget EVs.

[00:45:43] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:45:44] Djoann Fal: Right. [00:45:45] Focus on something else. Decarbonization is more important. Okay. Real estate decarbonization is more important. Uh, the certain alternative to air conditioning systems are more important, but again, we need [00:46:00] everything to make a world. Uh, but for us, we, we focus on industrial decarbonization and real estate decarbonization.

[00:46:05] Ronen Mense: So what does the everyday person do about this? Like, how do they make an impact?

[00:46:12] Djoann Fal: Uh, I can, I can share with you, uh, uh, an [00:46:15] example of a company we met yesterday.

[00:46:16] Ronen Mense: Okay.

[00:46:16] Djoann Fal: So, uh, so this company, uh, is doing, uh, um, insulation materials.

[00:46:22] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:22] Djoann Fal: Uh, so this, these insulation materials, uh, are basically 90% less CO2 consuming.[00:46:30]

[00:46:30] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:30] Djoann Fal: Um, and they protect the temperature indoor much better. Um, so. Yeah, that’s a game changer. Mm-hmm. For, for the, the heating and cooling of real estate, and probably most hotels and buildings [00:46:45] are gonna have to use these new type of materials. Uh, it’s $150 billion, uh, industry, the home energy retrofitting industry.

[00:46:54] Um, and so they’re doing that with robots. Uh, so they have robots assembling [00:47:00] panels. Uh, it’s a mix of wood and air and paper, uh, and it cannot burn, um, because there’s that specific material that they’re using. So you’re also making that house to be fireproof.

[00:47:14] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:14] Djoann Fal: [00:47:15] And, you know, heat resistant and cool resistant.

[00:47:18] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:19] Djoann Fal: So, uh, all, all with robotics, uh, so you can see that they’re creating a second skin, uh, of the house basically, uh, at very cheap costs and very low labor. [00:47:30] Uh, that company is called Lake Collapse, for example, so that’s a very interesting company We looked at. Uh, another company, uh, we looked at, for example last week was Kettle.

[00:47:40] Uh, they’re doing, uh, uh, real estate instruments mm-hmm. For climate. [00:47:45] So a lot of, uh, with, with, with 1.5 degree temperature changes, you have, um, I think 250% more chances to have extreme weather events.

[00:47:59] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:59] Djoann Fal: Which [00:48:00] means we passed that already on last year. So now we’re towards two per two, two degree. Right.

[00:48:04] Uh, which is more like 800% chance to have more, uh, extreme weather events, flood heat, 12, uh, wide fires. And those, uh, [00:48:15] so something that’s going to happen, you want it or not, is your houses and real estate is going to be impacted by that. Right. So more floods and things like this. So you need an insurance.

[00:48:27] So you’re gonna make a lot of money, uh, selling [00:48:30] insurances. Uh, so one of the company we look at is, is doing that. They’re doing insurance, but only for climate change. Uh, and they’re already profitable. Just started like a year ago.

[00:48:40] Ronen Mense: Wow. That’s,

[00:48:41] Djoann Fal: um, so, so you, you just need to think mm-hmm. You know, a [00:48:45] bit on the other, if everybody goes to ev you want to, you want to look

[00:48:52] Ronen Mense: somewhere else.

[00:48:52] Djoann Fal: Somewhere else, right. Uh, so

[00:48:53] Ronen Mense: hydrogen, I don’t know.

[00:48:55] Djoann Fal: Yeah. So, so another company, uh, yeah. I [00:49:00] don’t get me started.

[00:49:02] Ronen Mense: So I, I do want to get you started on something that is, uh, that is important because you talked about kind of the past, how you got from where you started to [00:49:15] now. And if you look forward, I don’t know how many years in the future.

[00:49:24] Right. And then from that point, you look back, what do you want your legacy to be?

[00:49:29] Djoann Fal: Hmm. [00:49:30] Um, so I don’t have kids yet, but I probably will have some. Uh, so I, the first thing is I want to be able to tell my kids that I’ve been one of the [00:49:45] 1000 person who really did something.

[00:49:48] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:48] Djoann Fal: Uh, that helped this generation, my kids

[00:49:53] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:49:54] Djoann Fal: Uh, to not be completely fucked.

[00:49:56] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:57] Djoann Fal: So I want to be considered as one of the 1000 person [00:50:00] who helped unfuck the planet,

[00:50:02] Ronen Mense: unfuck the planet,

[00:50:03] Djoann Fal: unfuck the planet. Uh, so that’s, that’s the legacy I wanna build. Um, and I think this rings the bell

[00:50:12] mm-hmm.

[00:50:13] Djoann Fal: With a lot of people. [00:50:15] Um. Not only in Asia, but in the west.

[00:50:18] You know, I spent a lot of time in Europe. Um, I spent time in the US and, and we have a lot of people joining us now. Uh, we have created that community. Mm-hmm. Of investors in [00:50:30] climate and founders in climate. It’s called the Climate Tech Coalition. Uh, and we have 1000 members now. Mm-hmm. That altogether mostly are investors altogether, gather 1.5, uh, sorry, 2.7 billion US dollar.

[00:50:42] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:43] Djoann Fal: Um, so this is [00:50:45] fire power, uh, you know, across all the different VCs we have in. And that’s just in a WhatsApp group.

[00:50:50] Ronen Mense: Wow.

[00:50:50] Djoann Fal: Right. So there’s a lot of firepower in there. And that’s much bigger than me already. I’m just, you know, putting the party together.

[00:50:57] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:58] Djoann Fal: Right. It’s not in a bar, it’s on a WhatsApp [00:51:00] group.

[00:51:00] Ronen Mense: That’s the new bar, isn’t it?

[00:51:01] Djoann Fal: That’s the new bar, you know, uh, the WhatsApp group, the newsletter, and uh, and yeah, that community I think is going to grow to $10 billion, uh, asset under management soon. Mm-hmm. So it’s much bigger than just mm-hmm. [00:51:15] My Atlas fund. Right. Uh, but I think the firepower that this community gonna have is going to get us to be.

[00:51:21] Part of this 1000 people who are unfucking the planet and hopefully will get on Wikipedia at some point for this. Um, but that’s for [00:51:30] my kids, for myself. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I want to build a small village mm-hmm. Somewhere that he’s totally climate proof.

[00:51:43] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:44] Djoann Fal: Uh, [00:51:45] so I was in France looking at a few, uh, places and, and, and terrains and, and lands for, to, to, to buy something there.

[00:51:54] Mm-hmm. Uh, with a few friends where all the innovations that we have been investing in, you know, that [00:52:00] cool air conditioning system mm-hmm. That I just talked about. The plug and play, uh, these new indoor, indoor installation materials, um, or the food production, you know, everything is climate proof. Mm-hmm.

[00:52:10] So even though we might have, you know, plus two degrees, [00:52:15] my house and my friend’s houses

[00:52:17] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:52:18] Djoann Fal: We always have that holiday home days. It’s pretty solid, you know? Mm-hmm. In case shits hit the fans.

[00:52:23] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:52:24] Djoann Fal: Um, I don’t think a bunker will do.

[00:52:26] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:52:27] Djoann Fal: I think this is more cool. Um, but it’s gonna be like, you [00:52:30] know, in a secret land somewhere.

[00:52:32] Uh, so, so that’s, that’s what, that’s what I want to do, uh, having that land with a few of my friends and investors and, and we share that land and, uh, and we can go there anytime and if we want to, we can have our kids there. Uh, and [00:52:45] all the innovations, or at least the most important innovations we’ve been banking actually are showcased in that small village.

[00:52:52] Um, and so, so yeah. Um, this is, this is what I’m, I’m working on next.

[00:52:57] Ronen Mense: Would that be called like a [00:53:00] Village de Unfucked?

[00:53:02] Djoann Fal: The Unfucked city? The

[00:53:04] Ronen Mense: Unfuck city?

[00:53:05] Djoann Fal: Um, uh, it’s, there’s this book I like from, uh, Aldi. Um, you know, I, as Clay wrote [00:53:15] Brave New World.

[00:53:15] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:16] Djoann Fal: Uh, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s that dystopia mm-hmm. Where he painted basically a future where human lost his soul to technology.

[00:53:27] And, and it’s, it’s quite scary. Mm-hmm. You [00:53:30] know, but if, if you look at it now, our life is pretty much brave New World. Uh, I, I invite you and, and your listener to check out, you know, that, that, that book mm-hmm. Uh, brave New World and, [00:53:45] and they realize that AI is running their life every day. Truly algorithms.

[00:53:49] And a lot of the stuff that this guy have wrote into that book is, is ba basically, that was

[00:53:53] Ronen Mense: written a long time ago. I can’t even remember when,

[00:53:56] Djoann Fal: um, uh, it’s, uh, 90. [00:54:00] 90. Yeah.

[00:54:03] Ronen Mense: Yeah. We’ll figure it out.

[00:54:04] Djoann Fal: One, I think it’s 1 9 20 or something. Uh, and so. Everybody knows about Brave New World, but he actually, at the end of his life, [00:54:15] after I’ve been thinking about so many different pathways for humanity

[00:54:19] Ronen Mense: mm-hmm.

[00:54:20] Djoann Fal: He wrote an utopia.

[00:54:22] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:23] Djoann Fal: Which was the answer to Brave New World, which could be a potential pathway for the [00:54:30] future. And that answer, this utopia is called Pala. Pala. Pala. And guess what? Pala is an island in Abin of Southeast Asia, which is the last [00:54:45] bastion of humanity.

[00:54:47] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:48] Djoann Fal: And they have reinvented completely humanity to be super sustainable.

[00:54:53] Uh, and that’s how I would call my city.[00:55:00]

[00:55:00] Ronen Mense: Super cool.

[00:55:02] Djoann Fal: Yep. Yeah, so I think in the meantime it’s about focusing funding. Into vital innovations for the planet. And again, um, not the obvious ones. It’s [00:55:15] all about digging a bit deeper. Looking at those numbers, how many percentage of CO2 is there? Is that really worth my time? Are those founders just here for the money?

[00:55:25] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:25] Djoann Fal: Or are they here because they really care about solving the problem for their kids? [00:55:30] Right. Um, and, and is that technology something that can actually be scaled? Because a lot of those technologies are just bullshit. They’re just moonshots. Just like every, you know, industry. Well,

[00:55:39] Ronen Mense: you do need moonshots, right?

[00:55:41] And, but you also need companies like yours to sift through the [00:55:45] moonshots and find what

[00:55:46] Djoann Fal: Exactly. And so that’s where is viable. We can help angel investors to do the screening. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, we have teams of engineers and PhDs who, who know

[00:55:55] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:55:55] Djoann Fal: Tho those, those technologies. And, and, and I think this is helping [00:56:00] getting, uh, the capital focused on innovations are actually worth it.

[00:56:04] And overall people will lose mo less money, uh, into random stuff. Um, and so I think that’s, that’s kind of the mission we are having at the moment so that a few years later we’ll have [00:56:15] the chance to build p

[00:56:17] Ronen Mense: Dude, this has been so exciting. I mean, like, I don’t want it to end, but, uh. Time, huh? Like everything, there’s always a beginning and there’s always an end, and then there’s a new beginning.

[00:56:28] And, uh, I [00:56:30] wanna do a quick fire round with you before we wrap this up. Sure. What do you Sure, sure, sure. What do you say? So you just mentioned, uh, brave New World is your favorite book, but what book would you recommend?

[00:56:38] Djoann Fal: Actually, the island.

[00:56:40] Ronen Mense: The Island

[00:56:40] Djoann Fal: From and Pa is

[00:56:42] Ronen Mense: pa. So that’s, that’s the book you would recommend.

[00:56:44] Djoann Fal: The book [00:56:45] is named Pa Yeah. From Andrea.

[00:56:46] Ronen Mense: What’s the best piece of advice you ever received?

[00:56:49] Djoann Fal: Give first.

[00:56:50] Ronen Mense: Give first. So do you like playing video games? Playing music, or traveling?

[00:56:58] Djoann Fal: I do Free of these at the [00:57:00] same time.

[00:57:01] Ronen Mense: All three at the same time.

[00:57:02] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:57:02] Ronen Mense: I mean, while playing music and listening to video games,

[00:57:05] Djoann Fal: honestly, uh, I, I.

[00:57:08] I’ve, I’ve, I play a lot of music.

[00:57:09] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:10] Djoann Fal: Uh, I have, uh, actually the video documentary that mm-hmm. My girlfriend is, is [00:57:15] doing. Uh, your

[00:57:15] Ronen Mense: fiance?

[00:57:16] Djoann Fal: My fiance,

[00:57:17] Ronen Mense: yeah.

[00:57:17] Djoann Fal: Um, uh, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s documentary about climate solutions.

[00:57:21] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:22] Djoann Fal: Talking about positive innovations and showcasing mm-hmm. Positive innovators that actually moving the needle.

[00:57:26] And, um, the music in those [00:57:30] documentary is from my band.

[00:57:32] Ronen Mense: Whoa.

[00:57:33] Djoann Fal: Yeah, it’s crazy. I know.

[00:57:34] Ronen Mense: What do you play?

[00:57:35] Djoann Fal: Uh, I, I barely play. No, but these are a lot of old songs that we, we had

[00:57:40] Ronen Mense: What instrument?

[00:57:41] Djoann Fal: I, I can play bass, uh, mainly.

[00:57:43] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:44] Djoann Fal: But I have a [00:57:45] cello as well.

[00:57:45] Ronen Mense: Wow. Cool.

[00:57:47] Djoann Fal: And I, I can play a bit of piano and guitar, but, um, yeah.

[00:57:51] So that she’s using the old songs that we created. Uh, and yeah, it’s quite fun. So, so that’s a bit of music. Um, and [00:58:00] video games, you know, sometime I just, uh, I just feel so frustrated because I know too much about climate change. Mm-hmm. So you just get very depressed. So it’s good to leave the world and get into a world of Warcraft.

[00:58:14] Ronen Mense: Mm. [00:58:15]

[00:58:15] Djoann Fal: For, you know, one day or two and then come back in. So I play World of Warcraft when I play Age of Empire with my friends during COVID a lot. Mm-hmm. But we don’t play that anymore. But through COVID we played video games and Yeah. Traveling when. It’s not really that I like traveling too [00:58:30] much, uh, anymore.

[00:58:31] Mm-hmm. I prefer to stay home and, and I just enjoy mm-hmm. Being with myself a lot.

[00:58:35] Ronen Mense: Yeah.

[00:58:36] Djoann Fal: At home. Um, but, um, unfortunately sourcing those companies mm-hmm. Um, it takes a lot of face-to-face, [00:58:45] you know, going to see the factory of this startup before you invest in them. Uh, talking to investors face-to-face, uh, is very important through the fundraising.

[00:58:54] So unfortunately I only spend like maybe four months per year in, in, in, in Bangkok, [00:59:00] uh, or in Thailand or in Asia actually. So, so it’s not like I want to travel, but it’s, it’s just, uh, it’s just part of the job now

[00:59:09] Ronen Mense: France or Thailand, who has the best food?

[00:59:13] Djoann Fal: Ah, [00:59:15] I’m French, so Yeah. I Ms. French food. Yeah. But I appreciate Thai food a lot.

[00:59:21] Yeah.

[00:59:22] Ronen Mense: So describe your journey.

[00:59:24] Djoann Fal: Yeah.

[00:59:25] Ronen Mense: Um. From basically working in startup to being a startup founder, to [00:59:30] being a startup investor in three words,

[00:59:37] a crazy green rollercoaster. Nice, nice. And is there, [00:59:45] or who is the most inspiring person for you today?

[00:59:56] Djoann Fal: I am constantly looking for someone else to look up [01:00:00] to.

[01:00:00] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:01] Djoann Fal: And, um, I get inspirations from a lot of people I meet.

[01:00:06] Ronen Mense: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:07] Djoann Fal: So it’s not gonna be this guy like Elon Musk or whatever. Mm-hmm. It’s more like every two or three months mm-hmm. I’m [01:00:15] gonna meet someone very inspiring. Mm-hmm. And I’m gonna try to pick some one or two things from him or her.

[01:00:22] Um, so it changes constantly. Uh, I have a few names, but yeah, like it changes a [01:00:30] lot.

[01:00:32] Ronen Mense: Well, if I have to take what you said, probably the most inspiring person to me right now is you, man.

[01:00:37] Djoann Fal: Thank you.

[01:00:38] Ronen Mense: Thank you.

[01:00:39] Djoann Fal: Thank you so much.

[01:00:40] Ronen Mense: Yeah, this has been excellent. Thanks a lot for, uh, and if you enjoyed the episode, [01:00:45] please subscribe ’cause yeah, we need more support and share this episode because I think it’s an awesome one.

[01:00:51] Thank you, John.

[01:00:52] Djoann Fal: Thanks, Ronan.

[01:00:53] Ronen Mense: All right. That’s our wrap. A version of this interview can be [01:01:00] found on the YouTube page of Apps Flyer. For more information about our show, go to www one epicenter.co. This podcast is sponsored by Apps Flyer and co-produced by Nico, Marco and Annu [01:01:15] Kumar.